Curse

Razz Thom · Jun 17, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

ok, we are discussing PvE here correct? so all you people saying "I don't want it to be easy should stop....look at the environment...and realise that the choice of using it affects only 1 person...YOU. if you don't like them, don't learn them and then your experience doesn't change. oooo...easy fix. some people may want to use them the way they are in which case if it makes the game too easy it is only for them. doesn't affect you. you aren't every player in the GW community. so why worry about it. maybe killing huge mobs quickly is fun for them. if so what is your motivation or even what gives you the right to nerf their fun? if you don't think the new skills are balanced then don't use them. end of story. let everyone enjoy the environment the way they see fit. not everyone has to see things your way.

NinjaKai · Jun 17, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Razz I do find it funny. You basically say that one persons opinion doesn't speak for the whole community. But you act like your solution is the one best for the community. Ironically humourous.

Razz Thom · Jun 17, 2007, 04:47 PM // 16:47

that wasn't what i said at all. i said everyone chooses their own PvE experience. if i run a monk/ranger with nothing but ranger spirits, how does that affect you? if i run a sin/ele carrying a scythe how does that affect you? answer.....it doesn't.if i run the new skills how does that affect you? same answer. it isn't like i will be hitting you with em, right? my solution is let everyone choose their own play style.period.

Mad King Corn · Jun 17, 2007, 05:55 PM // 17:55

I agree with Razz, these new skills were supposed to be powerful because they were given to us as PVE only. PVE only because these are skills that wont have to be nerfed because of PVP and should not be nerfed because of PVE either. I think Anets plans to nerf some of them stems from people complaining about them being overpowered. You can't tell me that the design team had no idea that these skills were overpowered, if they did not, then these people should not be making design changes in the first place. Its pretty bad when we get good skills and they are nerfed for PVE reasons. No need to nerf them, just don't use them if you feel you are good enough without them. I really appreciated them and even thanked anet for them, then after some ppl said OMG these are too powerful, Anet decides to nerf them. I know where my money is not going in the future.

phoenixtech · Jun 17, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I'm not sure why everyone thinks the warrior one isn't all that great. Think about it, it costs 6a and hits all adjacent foes. If you happen to round up 6 or more enemies, you can continuously attack all adjacent foes with +damage. Add in a conjure or weapon spell, and you have insane DPS.

The one second recharge prevents that, or else it'd be great.

The Hand Of Death · Jun 17, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Erm, is that sarcasim, as I find Cry of Frustration to be a good skill, and if the Sunspear skill is a more powerful version, then I'm happy. AoE interruptions are the kind of buff Mesmers needed for PvE.

Actually it isn't and AoE interupt. It just does AoE damage if you manage to interupt while a mesmer hex is on that enemy.

icymanipulator · Jun 17, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Cry of Pain actually has separate components. The only requirement is that a mesmer hex be on the target the results will be:

1. 100 AoE damage (R10) to surrounding enemies
2. Interrupts target AND does 100 AoE damage (R10) to surrounding enemies

The interrupt itself is just a nice bonus...it would be even better if it disabled the interrupted skill for a set span of time.

Aera Lure · Jun 17, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

I'm disappointed with the monk skills.

Seed of Life amounts to no more than an elite version of Healing Seed. At 10 cost and suffering from the problems of being an enchantment in a PvE setting, its return is not all that high in many settings to warrant its use over something else. It does shine as an optimal choice for a bonder, but within parties containing heroes or where the aggro changes often it becomes much less useful.

Selfelss Spirit amounts to no more than a different version of Air of Enchantment - remove the enchantment conditional but change the recharge time from 8 to 60. The recharge time kills this skill. Its also very similar to Divine Spirit, the only real difference is that it costs 5e less, and Divine Spirit isnt even an elite skill.

In both cases they should be somewhat improved as they are no better than a standard monk elite and do not even contend at all for high priority on a bar in many circumstances as other PvE-only skills do, but rather warrant use under specific circumstances only. I cant see using them in many cases - certainly not Selfless Spirit. Compared to the choices that need to be made on a monk's bar, most times you are better off with the nuts and bolts in the profession than either of these. They should be more akin to the priority level of the Dervish, Paragon, Elementalist and Assassin in terms of a high priority skill as PvE-only skills were envisioned. Same can be said of Ranger and Mesmer skills which also are in need of improvement.

Yggdrasil · Jun 17, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

I'm with Razz, if you think this is "overpowered" then don't use it. If you find the game too easy, you can hinder yourself quite readily, choose less efficient skills, take out skill-points, take less people/hench/heroes, etc. You shouldn't try to get nice skills nerfed for "PVE" reasons. These skills should stay the way they are (or be buffed); that was the whole reason they were made pve only, so there was no balance-issue. And before someone throws out "how do you know that, you a dev?" I would ask you what other conceivable reason is there for pve-only skills?

As it stands, I like the Nec one, it lets me do some direct damage in my curse-build. The Ele one is nice if not anything "special"; and I'm looking forward to getting some forms to use the Derv one on. So, all in all, I'm a fan of the skills/buffs to some (ie: ranger), a vehement opponent of nerfing them.

Gaile Gray · Jun 18, 2007, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Hey, there,

Thanks for continuing to post your thoughts. We'll pass along this link to the designers working on skill balance, so they get your impressions of the new skills.

Levi Garett · Jun 18, 2007, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I'm disappointed with the monk skills.

Seed of Life amounts to no more than an elite version of Healing Seed. At 10 cost and suffering from the problems of being an enchantment in a PvE setting, its return is not all that high in many settings to warrant its use over something else. It does shine as an optimal choice for a bonder, but within parties containing heroes or where the aggro changes often it becomes much less useful.

Selfelss Spirit amounts to no more than a different version of Air of Enchantment - remove the enchantment conditional but change the recharge time from 8 to 60. The recharge time kills this skill. Its also very similar to Divine Spirit, the only real difference is that it costs 5e less, and Divine Spirit isnt even an elite skill.

Seed of life is Healing Seed on steroids since it heals the whole party. Healing Seed you have to be adjacent to the person you casted it on. This difference is what makes Seed of Life 1000X better than Healing Seed. IMHO because of silly posts like this it will be one of the first skills nerfed. Having a bonder plus another monk with Echo/Arcane Echo/Seed of Life casting constant Seeds on the bonder is an awesome combo.

Selfless Spirit is crap I agree. It's 5 less EN than divine spirit but you can't cast on yourself. Considering most people don't waste a skill slot with divine spirit then Selfless Spirit won't be on my bar either. A handful of the other Kurzick skills are good though and are worth farming level 1-2 of the faction title (Ele, Nec, Derv, Ranger to name a few). I won't be FF'ing 10mil anytime soon though...

Please do not nerf these skills for gods sake. They are PvE ONLY skills. Who cares about balance in PvE. PvE'ers finally get some nice skills that should be exempt from nerfing (since they don't affect PvP) and now people are complaining about them being too powerful.

Beef up the skills that need beefing and leave the others alone. Stop catering to the whiners already ANet.

Taki · Jun 18, 2007, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Just one thing: the sunspear & faction skills in their current form make the Mesmer less viable in PvE than they've ever been before; there's no reason to take one over another Ele or Necro if you want to be efficient. Since ANet doesn't want them playing the role of a purple Elementalist, I would have thought the new mesmer skills would have given them more in the way of disrupting, diverting damage, or adding something to a team that no other profession can. Something perhaps similar to the following:

If target foe is interrupted, skills of target and nearby foes are disabled for 6 seconds. All of your skills are disabled for 6 seconds.

If target foe is interrupted, for 6 seconds, the next spell cast by nearby/foes in the area fails.

The next skill used by target and nearby foes recharges in +x seconds.

Lower the attributes of target foe and nearby foes by x.

Remove an enchantment from target foe and nearby foes. If an enchantment is removed in this way, that enemy [pick one]
1. takes x damage
2. suffers -x energy regeneration
3. suffers -x health regeneration
4. cannot be the target of further enchantments for x seconds
5. takes x damage whenever a spell targets that foe
6. suffers -x armor vs physical attacks

While suffering from this hex, 50% of damage you receive is redirected to target foe.

All hexed or conditioned foes in the area take x dmg when they attack.

For x seconds you suffer -y health regeneration. Target foe and nearby foes suffer -z energy regeneration.

But the most critical thing they missed out on was having a skill that started"For each point in Fast casting..."
Other than that, the new skills were mostly what I expected them to be - overpowered to the point they change PvE from easy to stupidly easy. Now to focus on regular skills, right?

Cebe · Jun 18, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. G

rits got seriously shortchanged here

They did? I like the fact there is another binding ritual which can be used in a Communing / Spawning build to replace Bloodsong since it was sent to Channeling...Granted, it's not as powerful as some of the other skills but that's sort of a good thing.

People always complain PvE is way too hard...well a lot of these skills will make it way too easy...because quite simply they're too powerful. Eternal Aura, used to recharge Forms allows you to permanently use a form...The Assassin skill, as nice as it is, imo is too powerful...It's too easy to critical and keep it up indefinitely. Necrosis still seems overpowered to me...Necrosis + Discord spamming could destroy a mob very (too?) quickly. Those skills sort of take away what challenge there was in PvE even more.

There are some skills I like though, Intensity for one, purely the fact that you can't have it up permanently and the extra damage hasn't been rediculously increased seems reasonably balanced to me...a nice little extra damage in Hard Mode. The Paragon Skill...like it. It's a nice replacement for the now redundant "Incoming!". Also Whirlwind Attack...that doesn't seem too overpowered to me and is nice with a hammer

Never Ramapage Alone and Cry of Pain seem kind of "meh". Cry of Frustration > Cry of Pain. Never Rampage Alone is just....meh. It doesn't do much imho.

Skye Marin · Jun 18, 2007, 07:53 AM // 07:53

If Vampirism Gave area allies the same amount stolen in health, or even one energy, and/or had increased attack speed, then it might be comparable. Right now, it's a modified Bloodsong with a shorter duration and twice the cost, and that's nothing special.

I wish Cry of Pain did what it did by default to one foe, recharged 1 second faster for each rank in fast casting, and then increased the number of foes interrupted and damaged by the Sunspear rank.

Fallen Nephilim · Jun 18, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

GRENTH is now usable!!!

Not when it's disabled. They are disabled for 120s when used, they dont have a recharge that matters.

arcanemacabre · Jun 18, 2007, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen Nephilim

Not when it's disabled. They are disabled for 120s when used, they dont have a recharge that matters.

Yeah, umm, Eternal Aura does indeed recharge the Forms. You can keep one up indefinitely now.

Riot Narita · Jun 18, 2007, 08:57 AM // 08:57

The Ranger's Triple Shot... seems OK for Ranger primaries, but it looks GREAT for Ritualists! It's practically MADE for Nightmare Weapon! Nightmare Weapon applies to your next three attacks... and Triple Shot gives you those three attacks at once. Might be pretty handy with Splinter Weapon too, without taking up your Elite slot (like Barrage).

A Ranger primary can carry Nightmare Weapon and Splinter Weapon too of course, but can only put 12 points maximum into Channeling. A Ritualist can have 16 points which gives a lot more damage from Triple Shot + Weapon Spell.

Perfected Shadow · Jun 18, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

I understand some people being pissed off about the crap ones, but the good ones why are people complaining? A charr isn't gona come to these forums and complain that you skills are overpowered.

Bull's eye. Can we please just focus on getting the crap skills buffed?

I suggest:

1.) Never Rampage Alone- Increase attack speed to +33%, reduce energy cost to 15.

2.) Cry of Pain- Reduce energy cost to 5, reduce recharge to 10 seconds.

3.) Vampirism- Reduce energy cost to 5, reduce recharge to 10 seconds. You can have 1...7 Vampirism spirits active at any time based on the Spawning Power attribute.

4.) Triple Shot- Reduce energy cost to 5, reduce recharge to 7 seconds.

5.) Selfless Spirit- Reduce recharge to 30 seconds.

6.) "Save Yourselves!"- Add a bonus for the warrior, "You enter a state of furious rage, gain +200 Health and attack 33% faster for 1...16 seconds (based on Strength attribute).
7.) Ether Nightmare- Rework the skill so that it would actually be a nightmare:
"For 10...21 seconds, target foe and all nearby foes are hexed with Ether Nightmare. They take damage and lose 5 energy whenever they use energy. The damage taken is equal to 0.4*Fast Casting*energy cost of skill used." Sounds confusing but basically, if a monster uses a 15 energy skill while under this hex (say at 10 FC), then it receives 0.4*10*15 = 60 damage and loses 5 energy.

These could be way over the top, but I'm just throwing some ideas.

Oofus · Jun 19, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Intensity: decreased duration to 10 seconds, increased recharge time to 45 seconds.

Well......was seriously considering adding Intesity to a few builds, when there was only 15 seconds downtime, but now it's just another worthless skill in a long list of worthless skills. It simply isn't worth the slot at 10/45, 35 seconds of downtime now, might as well let this be added as a PvP skill the way they smaked it with the nerf stick.

Oh well. Nothing to see here, move along.

Riot Narita · Jun 19, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

I've been trying Triple Shot on my ranger - with loads of different combinations of preparations, weapon spells, conjures etc... and I like it a lot!

I usually take a prep of some sort, and frequently a conjure or weapon spell as well. Where I used to take Marauder's Shot, Melandru's Shot or Keen Arrow for a big damage attack... I take triple shot instead. Assuming all 3 arrows hit, it's at least 150% the damage of a normal arrow... +30 from Read the Wind... and another +36 from Brutal Weapon, or 51 fire damage from conjure flame, or...etc etc. Favourable Winds or Winnowing adds gravy. With Nightmare Weapon, it steals 126 life.

Delicious! It's a big damage attack, but doesn't disable your non-attacks, doesn't require a critical hit, and doesn't take your elite slot. I really don't think this could be buffed without making it overpowered.

The only thing I don't like about it, is that it's a skill for Ritualists more than Rangers. A Ritualist will do much more damage with this than a Ranger because of weapon spells (which they can boost with Runes, unlike a Ranger). Well, not that its a big deal, and its nothing new, it's always been that way with Barrage, Dual Shot etc. It seems kind of "wrong", but Ritualists simply do more damage with bows than Rangers.

As for Never Rampage Alone... that's unlikely to appear on my skill bar as it stands, other people have pointed out its shortcomings already.